[zensphere]

really? that's what you hope for? sad to say at least….well probably he will turn gay cuz i love him so much and I am not afraid to manifest that by hugging and kissing him…regardless if he does turn guy I will love him cuz he is my son…the fact many of members of our community are gay doesn't stop me from loving them as human beings…think of it

^ kids don't turn out gay b/c they get affection from their fathers, afaik… there's some environmental influences on any behavior, but sexuality is largely genetically and hormonally determined. Also, first boys are less likely than younger male siblings to be gay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

For those who think that sexuality is purely a matter of choice (if there's anyone here who does), I'd ask you: when did you chose your sexuality?

[aktif]

really? that's what you hope for? sad to say at least….well probably he will turn gay cuz i love him so much and I am not afraid to manifest that by hugging and kissing him…regardless if he does turn guy I will love him cuz he is my son…the fact many of members of our community are gay doesn't stop me from loving them as human beings…think of it

^ kids don't turn out gay b/c they get affection from their fathers, afaik… there's some environmental influences on any behavior, but sexuality is largely genetically and hormonally determined. Also, first boys are less likely than younger male siblings to be gay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

For those who think that sexuality is purely a matter of choice (if there's anyone here who does), I'd ask you: when did you chose your sexuality?

FIRST TIME I SAW ME SOME (. ) ( .)!!!  Yeah buddy!

lol

[zensphere]

^Yeah, punctuation marks are pretty hot. Especially if you're not into extremities…
  😮
(. ) ( .)
    /
/  .  
(   Y   )
     /

[Machi]

^ kids don't turn out gay b/c they get affection from their fathers, afaik… there's some environmental influences on any behavior, but sexuality is largely genetically and hormonally determined. Also, first boys are less likely than younger male siblings to be gay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

For those who think that sexuality is purely a matter of choice (if there's anyone here who does), I'd ask you: when did you chose your sexuality?

thanks for clarifying Joseph,…my comment was on funny side if you didn't catch that… anyways I don't really think that way, I am just extremely happy to see my child growing and developing well, he is the best thing that ever happened to me…

[zensphere]

^ I wasn't trying to say that YOU thought that way, Machi… Just that some ppl do.

I hear ya bout the kiddos.  We should organize a psy-baby crawl stomp.

[Machi]

We should organize a psy-baby crawl stomp.

+1 (as soon as my little one can actually stomp…so possibly next summer if I am still in the country)

[aktif]

^Yeah, punctuation marks are pretty hot. Especially if you're not into extremities…
  😮
(. ) ( .)
    /
/  .  
(   Y   )
     /

WHOA!!!! VAGIN!!!!

[_eNdo_]

The one belief system that people in psy communities hold today which I have the most trouble with is Mayan 2012 related thinking; believing it to be either an apocalyptic event or a time of great human transformation and evolution, thus salvation from the human condition.  Why do people think we are any more correct that “our time” is the period of apocalypse or great transformation more so than the all the other cultures throughout recorded history who thought their time was “the time” and they were the “chosen ones” to experience something extra-ordinary?    The great transformation version of 2012 is the one I see running more throughout the Burning Man and psychedelic trance communities.  Thrown in is usually a belief that the universe was created for our benefit, that there is an inherent benevolence to the universe or that there is a benevolent being…or beings that are looking out for our own best-interest and will bring about this great transformation.

It seems awfully egotistical to me to think that the Universe is here just for us and that our generation is the one that will experience extra-ordinary events.  Why have the psytrance and BM psychedelic communities embraced this 2012 transformation belief so deeply?  Perhaps they are not accounting for the inherent effects on ego that come with the use of psychedelics?  Those effects being an increased grandiosity about our self-importance in history and in regards to the Universe, misjudging our relatedness to the Universe in thinking that it has love for us, not accounting for the gullibility and suspension of critical thinking during their experiences when later determining the validity of the thoughts and ideas they were introduced to by other, possibly more mature community members which occur mostly during and around the time of psychedelic festivals, when the use of psychedelics occurs en masse, and new thoughts/theories/beliefs are passed on and adopted en masse…hence why BM and psytrance communities have adopted 2012 en masse.

The whole 2012 thing has been grossly misconstrued and retarded.  Pop-culture has turned it into something entirely different from it's original message.  Your stance on this subject seems to be based entirely off what you've observed of other people who themselves have taken belief in the pop-culture version of 2012.  Yes, many people believe this stuff and what pop culture has turned it into and I understand your concerns regarding it.  However, I do think there is much validity to the original message that the years surrounding 2012 would be tims of great change.  You can't deny that the rate of change has been increasing at an exponential rate.  The explosion of technology and growth of human knowledge has exploded over the last century and is getting faster and faster.  Whether or not that has anything to do with the position of the bodies in the sky is up to you.  I find it an incredible coincidence that the Mayans predicted the beginning of a new epoch in the 21st centry.

Here is a note that I recently posted on facebook:
2012 was never a doomsday thing…pop-culture made it that way. 2012, to me, is just the middle point of a long cycle.  We have day and night on a planetary scale.  We have summer and winter on a solar scale.  We also have similar seasons on a galactic scale.  2012 is like midnight on a galactic scale.  The night is ending and dawn is approaching.  Being a galactic sized event, the belief that massive events would happen on a single day such as December 21st, is crazy.The changes have already been taking place over the last century (re: exponential growth of technology and human knowledge).  2012 simply marks the end of an epoch and the start of another. And life goes on…

[Pauldo]

Machi…if your sincere about not understanding e-love I'll be happy to explain it.  elove similiar to beer goggles in the sense that an intoxicated person over-estimates the attractiveness of a partner.  beer goggles you usually realize your mistake the next morning.  elove can last weeks, months or years if the couple continues to artificially enhance their ability to accurately judge their attraction, love and compatibility with their mate due to their initial and continued use of e/x/MDMA.  If their judgment of love/compatibility while under the influence of or during the lingering after-effects of E is different or way off from how they would feel about each other if they never had taken/met/or continued use of E then that's where the cognitive mistake in their thinking occurs.  The difference between thoughts and feelings while intoxicated vs thoughts feelings while sober.  Once use of E ends for the couple and it's lingering after-effects wear off they may wake up one morning realizing they really don't like their partner and how did they ever think they were compatible.  beer goggles – e-goggles same concept.

Common effects of MDMA are increased empathy, love and emotions for other people…not bad things at all but people should account for the effects when judging their relatedness to others.  E-love and psylic effects of e are well documented and researched by actual users and non-using clinicians.  Do your own research…tons of stuff out there about these concepts.  It's YOU MACHI, that has the cognitive misstep about MDMA not having psylic effects.  Yes, many many years ago when I first tried E I did experience psylic effects.

No I do not care about your childs eventual sexuality.  It's actually not an easy path for most gay persons.  I was just being a dick in response to your dick response that didn't provide any real constructive criticism (no homo).  Yes I do think you would fully love a gay child but I do think you'll have some initial problems becoming ok with the reality of your gay child based upon views re: sexuality that you've expressed here on the forum as well as your deeply ingrained old world catholic views which I have been trying to beat out of you over the years of debate here on the forum.  OK if your grown gay son brings his partner over for a family holiday dinner?  If they stay the night and sleep in the same room and same bed while under your roof?  Attend your gay sons legal wedding even though you disagree with gay marriage?

Yes I do give you kudos and thanks about your actual interactions with me.  Never once have I felt treated differently by you due to my sexuality.  Always have enjoyed the fun times with you, think very highly of you and Alex, very classy, intelligent and loving people.  Wish you and your family nothing but the best.

About causes of homosex:  I have a lesbian twin sister which makes me lean towards a genetic basis.  Obviously if someone is never exposed to their cognitive misstep about their sexuality through their environment and never acts on their homosex genetically produced sexual urges than are they gay?  Also believe a persons right to self-define however they choose trumps any genetic commands.     

 

[edais]

Common effects of MDMA are increased empathy, love and emotions for other people…not bad things at all but people should account for the effects when judging their relatedness to others.  E-love and psylic effects of e are well documented and researched by actual users and non-using clinicians.  Do your own research…tons of stuff out there about these concepts.  It's YOU MACHI, that has the cognitive misstep about MDMA not having psylic effects.  Yes, many many years ago when I first tried E I did experience psylic effects.

Yes, definitely a psylic.  Just because users usually don't experience shit moving around or have intense introspective “trips” doesn't mean it's not a psylic.  It's just a phenethylamine, not a tryptamine.  Same overall broad category, different subset.

[Pauldo]

The one belief system that people in psy communities hold today which I have the most trouble with is Mayan 2012 related thinking; believing it to be either an apocalyptic event or a time of great human transformation and evolution, thus salvation from the human condition.  Why do people think we are any more correct that “our time” is the period of apocalypse or great transformation more so than the all the other cultures throughout recorded history who thought their time was “the time” and they were the “chosen ones” to experience something extra-ordinary?    The great transformation version of 2012 is the one I see running more throughout the Burning Man and psychedelic trance communities.  Thrown in is usually a belief that the universe was created for our benefit, that there is an inherent benevolence to the universe or that there is a benevolent being…or beings that are looking out for our own best-interest and will bring about this great transformation.

It seems awfully egotistical to me to think that the Universe is here just for us and that our generation is the one that will experience extra-ordinary events.  Why have the psytrance and BM psychedelic communities embraced this 2012 transformation belief so deeply?  Perhaps they are not accounting for the inherent effects on ego that come with the use of psychedelics?  Those effects being an increased grandiosity about our self-importance in history and in regards to the Universe, misjudging our relatedness to the Universe in thinking that it has love for us, not accounting for the gullibility and suspension of critical thinking during their experiences when later determining the validity of the thoughts and ideas they were introduced to by other, possibly more mature community members which occur mostly during and around the time of psychedelic festivals, when the use of psychedelics occurs en masse, and new thoughts/theories/beliefs are passed on and adopted en masse…hence why BM and psytrance communities have adopted 2012 en masse.

The whole 2012 thing has been grossly misconstrued and retarded.  Pop-culture has turned it into something entirely different from it's original message.  Your stance on this subject seems to be based entirely off what you've observed of other people who themselves have taken belief in the pop-culture version of 2012.  Yes, many people believe this stuff and what pop culture has turned it into and I understand your concerns regarding it.  However, I do think there is much validity to the original message that the years surrounding 2012 would be tims of great change.  You can't deny that the rate of change has been increasing at an exponential rate.  The explosion of technology and growth of human knowledge has exploded over the last century and is getting faster and faster.  Whether or not that has anything to do with the position of the bodies in the sky is up to you.  I find it an incredible coincidence that the Mayans predicted the beginning of a new epoch in the 21st centry.

Here is a note that I recently posted on facebook:
2012 was never a doomsday thing…pop-culture made it that way. 2012, to me, is just the middle point of a long cycle.  We have day and night on a planetary scale.  We have summer and winter on a solar scale.  We also have similar seasons on a galactic scale.  2012 is like midnight on a galactic scale.  The night is ending and dawn is approaching.  Being a galactic sized event, the belief that massive events would happen on a single day such as December 21st, is crazy.The changes have already been taking place over the last century (re: exponential growth of technology and human knowledge).  2012 simply marks the end of an epoch and the start of another. And life goes on…

I disagree with your views on 2012 Eric and wish that you reconsider your position!  hehe

Seriously though…I need to correct my opening statement that psylic communities see 2012 as apocalypse or a great transformative event for humanity.  I agree pop-culture/general population/ non psylic using average Joe's hold the apocalyptic version of 2012 whereas the psylic communities hold the transformation version.  What accounts for the different versions?  how did each come up with their version.  I think the average Joe's version came about through their religion, apoc/end times a common theme that runs through most religions.

Psylic version of great transform occurring during our times, to our generation, that we'll get to experience and benefit from personally because we have special knowledge of this coming event, which makes us more special than any generation that has come before us… and once and for all mankind will be saved from the human condition!  Comes from the over-grandiosity inherent with psylic use and propensity of people under the influence to believe the things that they hear from others…specifically at events like BURNING MAN, yes I blame BM for passing around this 2012 bs and west-coast burners/psy-trance cross-overs for infecting the psy community with this 2012 non-sense.  How can a douche like Pinchbeck be a start at an event like BM.  Burners should be embarrassed and ashamed for falling for this.  I am sincerely pissed about this and think real damage and dis-service has been done to individual psyche's including close friends that I think may be lost forever.  Just dissing this 2012 aspect of BM, love my own BM experiences, absolute genius event, highly rec it to everyone.  These talks by these douches at BM is the start of these belief systems that, where speakers and people are under the influence, likely to suspend critical thinking, accept most things the wonderful good-intentioned people tell them as true.

Yes I agree the nature of evolution and technology runs at an exponential rate.  Yes our rate of growth and the discoveries/inventions that we'll experience is going to blow away anything that any previous generations have experienced.  Don't forget though the generations that follow us will blow us away even more so than how we blew away our previous generations.  And the generations after them and so-on and so-on, asit always has been and as is the exponential nature of evolution.  I remember my Mom talking about her families first TV and how watching wrestling on a small crappy screen was just mind blowing.  We'll no doubt have similar experiences.

I have heard it argued down on another list and the net that Pinchbeck pretty much made up what he proposes about 2012.  That there's nothing about the mayan calendar that points to that date in 2012, or any kind of special galactic alignment or any other special event occurring.  Nothing special about mayan calendar more so than any other ancient calendar system.  Mayan weren't a great advanced civilization with special lost knowledge.  Brutal people and ignorant about how most of the natural world actually works.  Great astronomers but not more so than some other ancient cultures…and the astronomy only came about due to their need for accurate reading of seasons for planting and harvesting.  Advanced food production and medicine…no.  Human sacrifices…yep.

Galactic alignment and what it means is not up to me…it's up to actual real physical proof proof of how that works.  Can you explain to me how galactic alignments effect human thinking and society here on Earth?  How does that physically work…specially energy waves are directed our way by our benevolent universe, the waves thus effecting individual thinking creating a domino effect out to human society en masse?  ZERO, and I'm very firm on this, there is ZERO proof about galactic alignment or anything about Mayan 2012 at all.

Sorry E, I'm just not sold on 2012 and we'll just have to disagree.  I'm pumped and excited about the future and the cool shit we'll get to experience just like you are.  Just don't see how you get their with 2012 beliefs.

[Machi]

I do think you'll have some initial problems becoming ok with the reality of your gay child based upon views re: sexuality that you've expressed here on the forum as well as your deeply ingrained old world catholic views which I have been trying to beat out of you over the years of debate here on the forum. 

what are you talking about here, man? stuff like that just shows your continuous misconception about who I am and what I stand for…take me out of that drawer and put in the one with people you don't actually know and we start from scratch…

[Machi]

Machi…if your sincere about not understanding e-love I'll be happy to explain it.  elove similiar to beer goggles in the sense that an intoxicated person over-estimates the attractiveness of a partner.  beer goggles you usually realize your mistake the next morning.  elove can last weeks, months or years if the couple continues to artificially enhance their ability to accurately judge their attraction, love and compatibility with their mate due to their initial and continued use of e/x/MDMA.  If their judgment of love/compatibility while under the influence of or during the lingering after-effects of E is different or way off from how they would feel about each other if they never had taken/met/or continued use of E then that's where the cognitive mistake in their thinking occurs.  The difference between thoughts and feelings while intoxicated vs thoughts feelings while sober.  Once use of E ends for the couple and it's lingering after-effects wear off they may wake up one morning realizing they really don't like their partner and how did they ever think they were compatible.  beer goggles – e-goggles same concept.

1. knowing that E effect will last for a several hours you will need to fuel your e-love on daily bases…if you keep taking E on daily bases over years you will have holes in your brain of the size of golf ball – after that i don't think anyone will be capable of having anything feelings whatsoever…

2. over the years….any feeling will fade away if you don't do anything with it and put effort in building proper relationship….

sorry man, still don't buy your e-love theory

[Machi]

Yes I do give you kudos and thanks about your actual interactions with me.  Never once have I felt treated differently by you due to my sexuality.  Always have enjoyed the fun times with you, think very highly of you and Alex, very classy, intelligent and loving people.  Wish you and your family nothing but the best.

appreciate that, a lot. still love you brother  🙂

[Pauldo]

I do think you'll have some initial problems becoming ok with the reality of your gay child based upon views re: sexuality that you've expressed here on the forum as well as your deeply ingrained old world catholic views which I have been trying to beat out of you over the years of debate here on the forum. 

what are you talking about here, man? stuff like that just shows your continuous misconception about who I am and what I stand for…take me out of that drawer and put in the one with people you don't actually know and we start from scratch…

ok, i will

[Author]

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