[edais]

My my, this is a great topic.  I have much to say.

In regards to the ugliness and hypocrisies at events, I see them but I'm able to continue to have a good time, because I accept reality and don't sugarcoat it with spiritual delusions.  When I said psytrance events are family gatherings, I didn't imply it was a functional family.  It's just… you know… family.  When I said psytrance events are spiritual journeys, I didn't imply it was a good or healing thing.  Spiritual journeys can mean anything, even journeys into hell.

So in my opinion, I reject assumptions that spirituality might be somehow inherent with delusion, naïveté, ignorance, or extremist dogma.

I accept that they are in some cases.  I agree with you on many things Ora, but I too feel Nod brings up a lot of good points (I had already been thinking things along these lines for awhile now).  Having a spiritual experience at a party is a good thing, but advertising parties as such (or making it a goal to enhance a spiritual aspect) is a dangerous thing.  I feel like having spiritual experiences (with drugs or not) should come with great responsibility, as well as mindfulness of how easy it is to be a part of the “irrational escapism.”  Due to the fact that the best experiences are usually the ones that involve foregoing the ego and experiencing things completely in the moment,  this can cause people to lose sight of basic respect, dignity, and/or health and, dare I say it, hygiene.  “Breaking out of one's shell” I think, is synonymous with “breaking away from reality” and can turn from a wonderful experience to dangerous or unhealthy situation all too quickly.  Being that society, as Leo said, marginalizes this sub-culture, impatience and a pent up desire to express oneself can be excellent motivators to the aforementioned negative concequences.  

About drugs in relation to spiritual experiences or parties:

Chilluminati has never condoned drug use, and every event says that drugs are not allowed.  Any breaking of this rule is in no way aligned with any agenda that they put forth (I don't mean to speak for them, but I think they'd agree).  That being said, if you don't overextend yourself and keep your head on straight (even if “straight” is at minimum level), it is very easy to have a good time and not adversely affect your health or the health and safety of any other party goers.  Any discussion of this runs along a very thin line, but negative actions/reactions–which I have seen over and over again (whether temporary or lasting)–should not be taken lightly.  We have to look out for each other, and that goes for first-timers and people we don't know, even if we're sketched out because it affects EVERYONE and the integrity of the organization.  Overall, most people aren't idiots, but the ones that are should not be overlooked.  It's a matter of public health.  Probably the best way help keep things positive and away from a “family that's not functional” or a “journey through hell” as Ora so eloquently put it, is to set a good example.  It seems like this might be–to some–hypocritical with respect to certain things (I leave to the reader to decide what that means), but I would call it evolution.  Passing on wisdom and good intentions.  It might take some drastic actions sometimes even, but I think it would be worth it.

So, I don't really agree with Koru at all that it's all “personal perspective.”  Personal perspective is always involved, but using that as a justification for any behavior in relation to psy-trance spirituality (haha I can't believe I just said that) or otherwise is not a great idea.  It also kind of downplays the positive impact these parties can have, as well as their uniqueness from other raves, festivals, parties, etc.  Especially as an organizer you should take this discussion to heart being that a lot of what we're discussing here affects the security, health, and safety of this family as a whole.  Respecting personal perspective is a good thing, but intertwining it with unhindered self-expression at parties, spirituality, and drug use can be a volatile thing.  I know you didn't mean that apathetically though.

I can personally say that I have been privy to many unhealthy behaviors in the past at parties–from eating unhealthy, to partaking in too many “party favors,” to dancing and neglecting to wear a coat when it's 30 degrees outside.  People's actions are THEIR own actions indeed, but in a community this tight-knit, a good example and a watchful eye goes a long way.  Now that this scene has evolved somewhat and is more solidified, I think it would be a major mistake to take the lessons that I have learned at face value and say that everyone will figure it out eventually.  I don't think a psy-party has to be just another taste of food, I think there's really something here that can be more than that.  But we have to look beyond our fears of being “close-minded.”  Koru did have it spot on when she said that it all comes down to “individual and collective intentions.”  I think everyone should keep this in mind at all times at every party because honestly, we're all really lucky in so many ways and it would be a shame to lose that or take it for granted.  Hopefully, for starters this discussion and future discussions will lead to a blossoming of a greater sentience of personal and communal accountability.

[meghetti]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses, everyone! I have a lot to read and think about here 🙂

Whether or not Crystal Sky (the first party I ever went to) was all I thought it was cracked up to be (as I was in an altered state of conciousness while I was there, some of them for the first time), TO ME (haha) it was a beautiful experience, during which I met very lovely and kind (and fun!) people. There was some negative things I felt/saw there, but overall, I was very happy with my experience.

A-raving I shall go!

[Ascension]

I'm not gonna edit anyone's posts, but for future reference, less emphasis on the d word please. As Phil said, it's not something we condone. Also, realize that any text you type on a forum is searchable by anyone.

[damon]

I'm not gonna edit anyone's posts, but for future reference, less emphasis on the d word please. As Phil said, it's not something we condone.

I miss Fixer and his nazi-moderation  😉

[Blaize224]

So, I don't really agree with Koru at all that it's all “personal perspective.”  Personal perspective is always involved, but using that as a justification for any behavior in relation to psy-trance spirituality (haha I can't believe I just said that) or otherwise is not a great idea.  It also kind of downplays the positive impact these parties can have, as well as their uniqueness from other raves, festivals, parties, etc.  Especially as an organizer you should take this discussion to heart being that a lot of what we're discussing here affects the security, health, and safety of this family as a whole.  Respecting personal perspective is a good thing, but intertwining it with unhindered self-expression at parties, spirituality, and drug use can be a volatile thing.  I know you didn't mean that apathetically though.

🙂 I agree that our events are unique and have potential to create a positive impact on our community. My comment about personal perspective still stands . . . I take a realistic approach when it comes to viewing human sociology and evolution. Trying to establish which type of event is better for EVERYBODY is futile. As individuals our understanding of the world is based on our past experiences. Coming from radically different backgrounds, two people might have very different opinions of what is good/bad and what is positive/negative. Within their minds, each person whole heatedly believes in their perspective. But which one is right? Who gets to decide?

Personal perspective as in: which is better psy gatherings or raves? Are psy gatherings spiritual or secular. I don't think there are definitive answers to these questions. It depends on your belief system, intentions and ethics.

Don't think my comment downplays the uniqueness or positive impact of our events, simply states that these distinctions are not concrete, but debatable  😉

And yes, keeping a watchful eye and helping others grow is something I do to better our community as well. But I don't see this as a requirement to being a part of a psytrance event, it's a personal choice.

. . . Koru did have it spot on when she said that it all comes down to “individual and collective intentions.” 

Yes, I am always spot on  ;D

good discussion . . . things to ponder . . .

[emilybobemily]

<— alcohol. in excess.

but I mean, I'm a veteran. I've been goin to edm shizz for about 10 years. alcohol only came into the picture recently. I recognize the music, people, and all of the intricacies of the events for what they are in their majesty… I just REALLY love beer.

I met Kri and the Touch Samadhi crew when I was a wee 16 year old, bright eye'd and bushy tailed 10 years ago and have psy'd it out ever since. I love this scene and everything it means to everyone.

But you have to recognize that it means something different to each person… and every person's perspective is special to them.

[Ascension]

Ora- as I said, any word people type on here is searchable by ANYONE (who would we not want finding that particular word in a search and linking them to this site :)?).

[edais]

Ora I don't think you crossed any lines.  Really there was only one post that should be refined IMO.  Already sent a PM to that person.

[meghetti]

I modified what I had said, as two different people PMed me about it.

I understand why it had to be done, though I disagree with it. Its disheartening that we cannot have an entirely open and free conversation here, but I do know why that is the case.

I'm not dwelling on it nor do I want to upset people, I'm just stating my feelings at the moment. 😛

Anyway, I'm really glad to have spurred this discussion. Its interesting to see the different perspectives on all of this. I hope everyone has gained something from it.

I'm not really one to say that X answer is the right answer, or the wrong answer. I think X is just an answer– I think many of you would probably say the same for yourselves. I appreciate and love the open-mindedness of this community, and of anybody in general. I hope we can continue to live in harmony despite differences. Peace 🙂

[edais]

No offense, but am I the only one that gets sick of hearing “any answer is the right answer” or “it's just a matter of opinion” or “nobody's right or wrong, they're just different.”  I think this shit is used far to often as a scapegoat for not making any sound judgment on anything, no matter how important it is.

[Ascension]

Phil you're officially become (more?) jaded.

[soospicy]

yea, unfortunatly this is an open forum for all of the world to view. i guess its a trade off. if its a private forum it is less appealing to newcomers and passerby's, but allows for that level of comfort to discuss whatever you please without drawing negative attention or critisism. if its a public forum you get the opposite.  :-  I think that the latter is friendlier.  😉

[edais]

Phil you're officially become (more?) jaded.

Your mom's a jade.

[edais]

Boooooooo

haha yeah I know, but that's just it.  There are points of truth.  There's always going to be people with different perspectives, but I think it's ok to “give in” to some truths (not without thinking and/or discussing alternate views of course), then ultimately accept them as being right or wrong–whether you have a philosophical existential conflict with right and wrong is up to you.  Then say fuck you to everyone else when they try to spew “it's just different” crap at you.

Again, this is just for some things.  The majority of the arguments I get into can boil down to difference of opinion.  But I can't shake off the fact that certain things have too much going for them to be considered anything else but inherently right or inherently wrong, end of story.

[edais]

No offense, but am I the only one that gets sick of hearing “any answer is the right answer” or “it's just a matter of opinion” or “nobody's right or wrong, they're just different.”  I think this shit is used far to often as a scapegoat for not making any sound judgment on anything, no matter how important it is.

Judgement can be spelled with or without an 'e'.  “Neither is right or wrong, they're just different.”  The question is not whether something is right or wrong, it is whether it works.

Right Pauldo?! 😉

Actually, I like that statement.  It isn't whether something is right or wrong, but whether it works.  Nice.

[Author]

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