[Nameless One]

I see it is vaccine misinformation week… good thing there's a cure for that at Science-Based Medicine:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/SBM-VaccineAwareness/

Turn your attention to the chicken pox story:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2472

Of course, I fully expect anti-vaxxers to simply wave their hands and dismiss the whole thing… hopefully anyone who might otherwise be swayed by Mercola's brand of pseudoscience will give equal time to what the scientific position is.

[Machi]

I see it is vaccine misinformation week… good thing there's a cure for that at Science-Based Medicine:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/SBM-VaccineAwareness/

Turn your attention to the chicken pox story:
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=2472

Of course, I fully expect anti-vaxxers to simply wave their hands and dismiss the whole thing… hopefully anyone who might otherwise be swayed by Mercola's brand of pseudoscience will give equal time to what the scientific position is.

science based on fear to sell millions of dollars worth of vaccines….

said that I don't hesitate to vaccinate my child against viruses that cause meningitis cuz the risk and complications from getting the disease are too high but chicken pox vaccine…I don't see the need for it esp. after I had one and still developed shingles…

what makes you believe one article more than the other? I guess you run your own science based study almost on everything you post here….

[Nameless One]

I own a baloney detection kit.

Incidentally, are you unable to see how your original article is more a case of fear-mongering than the rational alternative?

Your article: OMFG epidemic!
My article: chicken pox is mostly benign but we could do a better job of reducing adverse affects.

[Machi]

Your article: OMFG epidemic!

really? that's how you took it?

now, what is Mercola gaining from spreading the info like that? i don't think he sells more of his merchandise because of that…from the other hand vaccines are multibillion dollar business…

[Nameless One]

Vaccines are a multi-billion dollar business because they work. Of course we need to keep Big Pharma in check… but we do.

Mercola also has a business to run (or did you not notice the “products” section on his site?) and obviously profits from playing the devil's advocate when it comes to all manner of health information.

[Machi]

Vaccines are a multi-billion dollar business because they work. Of course we need to keep Big Pharma in check… but we do.

Mercola also has a business to run (or did you not notice the “products” section on his site?) and obviously profits from playing the devil's advocate when it comes to all manner of health information.

yeah, he is the businessman alright and smart one too, making an awesome living….but what kind of alternative he sells in regards to vaccine…getting full blown chicken pox instead?

and again, that chicken pox vaccine obviously didn't work for me… didn't do what it was supposed to do…so is science wrong? there are other vaccines that don't work, you can read letters and testimonies from parents who lost their kids because of poorly designed vaccine shots for non-lethal children diseases…

[esmokah]

machi, you needed to get the polish chicken pox vaccine.

[Nameless One]

yeah, he is the businessman alright and smart one too, making an awesome living….but what kind of alternative he sells in regards to vaccine…getting full blown chicken pox instead?

Alternative health i.e. buy my krill oil supplements and you don't need any vaccines. You think he is only against chicken pox vaccine? Mercola is a misinformation factory about this kind of thing.

and again, that chicken pox vaccine obviously didn't work for me… didn't do what it was supposed to do…so is science wrong? there are other vaccines that don't work, you can read letters and testimonies from parents who lost their kids because of poorly designed vaccine shots for non-lethal children diseases…

If the science states that these vaccines will work 100% of the time with no adverse effects then yes, science is wrong. Of course, that is not what is claimed so you are setting up a straw man here.

[Machi]

yeah, he is the businessman alright and smart one too, making an awesome living….but what kind of alternative he sells in regards to vaccine…getting full blown chicken pox instead?

Alternative health i.e. buy my krill oil supplements and you don't need any vaccines. You think he is only against chicken pox vaccine? Mercola is a misinformation factory about this kind of thing.

please point me where in article he mentioned that krill oil….from the other hand he is kinda right….Omega-3 acids do boost your immune system a lot, it's actually one of the supplements you should be taking living so far north…well but it's ” different science”  you probably don't approve either. i have been interested in good nutrition and well-being for a long time and i have to tell you Mercola confirms a lot of stuff I have known already from other sources….

and again, that chicken pox vaccine obviously didn't work for me… didn't do what it was supposed to do…so is science wrong? there are other vaccines that don't work, you can read letters and testimonies from parents who lost their kids because of poorly designed vaccine shots for non-lethal children diseases…

If the science states that these vaccines will work 100% of the time with no adverse effects then yes, science is wrong. Of course, that is not what is claimed so you are setting up a straw man here.

heh, I am setting up a straw but you are not….it's all personal perspective…

does anyone educates people about vaccines and all the side effects? no, I have to educate myself, nobody mentions possible death or other complications like autism…cuz it's all conspiracy.

if the science tells me it's better for me to take a vaccine than not and it's not true cuz the best way for me to be protected from shingles later is catching chicken pox in natural way then yes science is wrong cuz it's better for me to get sick, right?

[Pauldo]

got my flu shot yester and received a 2 page sheet from the CDC that clearly states that life threatening reactions can occur but are uncommon

[Nameless One]

please point me where in article he mentioned that krill oil….from the other hand he is kinda right….Omega-3 acids do boost your immune system a lot, it's actually one of the supplements you should be taking living so far north…well but it's ” different science”  you probably don't approve either. i have been interested in good nutrition and well-being for a long time and i have to tell you Mercola confirms a lot of stuff I have known already from other sources….

He doesn't have to mention krill oil. Let's not get confused here. You made the argument that proponents of science-based medicine are tainted because there is money to be made. I'm pointing out that by the same logic Mercola's information is also skewed because he is making money as well. Of course, you could say the vaccine industry (of which the authors at SBM are not a part) is a multi-billion dollar one whereas Mercola's operation is no doubt much smaller, but that is false equivalence (comparing a company to an entire industry), and, in any event, seems to imply that the truthiness of a world-view is inversely proportionate to the amount of money being made, or something else equally inane and farfetched. This is probably not what you're saying, of course… just sayin'.

There is nothing alternative about good nutrition. Alt-med types love to take credit for pushing nutrition, proper sleep, exercise, etc. but this is already the foundation of human health. Anytime I see the doctor with an ill-defined problem the first questions they ask are: “Have you been getting enough rest? Are you eating right? How about exercise?” Of course, if I visit the doctor with a well-defined problem they're not going to ask the same thing – which is exactly how it should be (when it isn't an issue of diet or sleep). The system isn't perfect by any means… but many of the criticisms levelled by alt-med types ring false when you examine the evidence.

Mercola gets some things right… but the issue is that his outlook is flawed and many of his oft-repeated conclusions are unsupported by the evidence. He cherry picks data and skews the results of scientific studies to suit his pre-existing world-view. There is, actually, no amount of evidence that would convince him that his views about vaccines are wrong.

Incidentally, what does it mean to “boost your immune system”? Check this out:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1828

heh, I am setting up a straw but you are not….it's all personal perspective…

How am I setting up a straw man? Example please.

does anyone educates people about vaccines and all the side effects? no, I have to educate myself, nobody mentions possible death or other complications like autism…cuz it's all conspiracy.

So this highly regulated industry is a conspiracy… what about the unregulated natural health product industry? Just in it for your health, not your dollars?

[Machi]

Incidentally, what does it mean to “boost your immune system”? Check this out:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1828

i don't really like that website…quasi-scientific while they are lacking lots of info what really makes your immune system work better, simply, imo the article is for laymen…who don't really know the nature of maintaining a good health, something you can find on msn daily. there is more practical knowledge in some responses to the article you posted…

we can go back and forth like that for a while but I don't really have to convince you to anything, I have nothing to proove, simply I like to think for myself basing my knowledge not only on scientific data but on my own and others' personal experience as well…that's why I carefully choose vaccines I want my child to receive…thus I am going to skip a chicken pox one  🙂

[Nameless One]

That's fair. I would only get into a serious argument with parents who are abstaining from all vaccines as there are very real and measurable consequences.

The point about “boosting the immune system” is an interesting one to explore, however. The argument there is that the human immune system is functioning perfectly well when it is ready and not otherwise suppressed (e.g. by poor sleeping patterns or bad diet). What do you think of the assertion that the inflammatory response leads to a greater risk of possibly fatal complications? It really sounds as if “boosting” the immune system is undesirable. Perhaps “not fucking over your immune system” is the more reasonable equivalent of what people mean when they talk about boosting 🙂

[Machi]

What do you think of the assertion that the inflammatory response leads to a greater risk of possibly fatal complications? It really sounds as if “boosting” the immune system is undesirable. Perhaps “not fucking over your immune system” is the more reasonable equivalent of what people mean when they talk about boosting 🙂

I think you can compare it to an army of soldiers who are well trained, full of energy and ready to go for attack ….but if there is noone to attack and they will get bored they will start attacking each other.

[PookztA]

Machi,

There is one small point I want to address, by sharing information with you so that you can have a more accurate understanding of an important topic.

I am not going to get involved with this discussion, I simply want to set the record straight regarding one specific topic. The following information will hopefully clear up any lingering confusion you might have regarding the unscientific claims that autism is linked to vaccines. You raise a good concern about the Chicken Pox vaccine, but please keep in mind that your situation is extremely rare. There is always a chance that the vaccine may not work or may cause adverse affects for individuals, but these risks are extremely minimal (Benefit >>> Risk).

Please read these links Machi, and just email me if you have any questions. I do not check this forum much so please do not expect me to join in this discussion. If you email me I will surely discuss this with you. Just email me if you want to discuss this further or if you have any health questions. My email is pookztagmailcom. Here are the links:

1. Journal Retracts 1998 Paper Linking Autism to Vaccines: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lancet.html
2. Do Vaccines Cause Autism? http://specialchildren.about.com/od/autismandvaccines/i/vaccines.htm
3. Childhood vaccines: Tough questions, straight answers: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vaccines/CC00014

Hope this helps brother,

-Abe

One last thing (i guess i couldn't help but feel obligated to offer my opinion to a friend regarding this important medical topic. email me with any questions please):

Mainstream science has already acknowledged the health-benefiting effects of things like Fish Oil / Flax Oil (Omega 3's) and Vegetarian Diets. In fact, as a physician-in-training, I can personally vouch for the fact that we are being trained to recommend these diet modifications to our patients, such as increased intake of vegetables and less meat-intake, and increased intake of Fish Oil / Flax Oil supplements. Fish Oil / Flax Oil is even prescribed in the hospital now, for a wide variety of health benefits. In other words, Mercola recommending fish oil does not make him special, as they do it in the hospital all the time nowadays since science has validated Fish / Flax Oil's health-benefiting effects. I do not think Mercola is a bad guy, as much of the stuff he sells is vitamins and natural supplements. A common product that you see “quack” doctors trying to sell is Chondroitin Sulfate to “help improve joints”. So much science has shown that Chondroitin Sulfate does not improve joints in most patients, and when it does, it usually can be explained by multiple other causes. So, if you ever see a doctor selling Chondroitin Sulfate as a “joint-benefiting treatment”,  be skeptical of them. In this case, Mercola does not sell that product, and most of the products he sells seem to be natural supplements, not cures, so on this side of things he seems alright.

At the same time though, be suspicious if he ever claims that any of these supplements can cure or heal an illness without scientific proof. Furthermore, be weary if you ever hear him link Vaccines and Autism, or if you ever hear him speak of H1N1 as “not a threat”. These are things you can use to tell if a person is being honest or not, because there is a lot of evidence out there showing the truth of these matters. Just some tips. Mercola seems alright in my opinion, but at the same time, he seems very suspicious. Look here: http://swineflu.mercola.com/ and here: http://vaccines.mercola.com/ . Do you see how he promotes only one view? The view he wants to push? Do you see how there is very little, if any information, showing how helpful vaccines are, and how they have helped us to conquer so many diseases that used to plague humanity? No, you don't. He pushes his anti-vaccine view. He pushes his “be afraid of the h1n1 vaccine” view. Why does he do this? Perhaps to boost sales on his website? Why doesn't he encourage people to make their own mind, and to access whether or not they need the vaccine? Why doesn't he mention that immunocompromised people, and young children, are most at risk for H1N1, and should be vaccinated since the Benefit >>> Risk? The information above seems very biased, and very agenda-driven. For this, I am very suspicious of Mercola. Perhaps he wants you to buy more of his natural “immune-boosting” supplements?

To end this, I just want to say that it is good to be concerned, but it is bad to rely on one person and one website to form your opinion. It is good to be researching, but make sure to question each source, even your favorite source. The biased anti-vaccine views of Mercola are unfair, because he fails to discuss how helpful vaccines have been for humanity. Instead, he seems dead-set on trying to convince you that vaccines are bad, which are not the case. You would think that a medical doctor would present a more fair and unbiased view, with good, neutral information that lets the reader think about it on their own and decide for themselves. Instead, Mercola seems to be trying to convince you that vaccines are bad, and that is not a good thing in my opinion. He is literally promoting more disease in the population by being so heavily anti-vaccine. Think about it, would you really want your child to go without a Diptheria vaccine? Without a Tetanus vaccine? Without a Measles, Mumps, Rubella vaccine? What are the risks? What are the benefits? Would you fully recover from the disease if you did get it, or would you have permanent damage? Machi, I know you did not ask me for advice, but I just wanted to tell you, that based on the evidence and the known Risks and Benefits, I will certainly be getting my child vaccinated. Perhaps not for Chicken Pox, for Chicken Pox most often does not result in permanent damage, plus natural exposure to it results in stronger immunity, but for things like the diseases I just mentioned and many, many others, well, let's just say, my future children will be getting those vaccines, without a doubt. Peace brother <3

[Author]

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