[psycherhexic]

;D

having a hard time with google  :-

but a co-worker is debating religion with me.. he's a Jehovah's witness. He claimed last night that the Torah is the OLDEST historical document talking about a god!

I feel like this is impossible… but I can't find solid/simple evidence online anywhere.

thought maybe someone knew.

[zensphere]

the rig veda is much older than the torah, but not a monotheistic text. But then again, neither is the torah, really, as it speaks of the existence of other gods than the god of the israelites…

Just cause something is old doesn't mean it's true, though…

[Pauldo]

there's no arguing with those Jehova freaks.  just flip him the bird!

[Machi]

there's no arguing with those Jehova freaks.  just flip him the bird!

Paul, please record one of the encounters with Jehova freaks with a hidden camera. I would really like to see that  ;D

[_eNdo_]

The oldest known religious texts are Pyramid texts of Ancient Egypt that date to 2400-2300 BCE. The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria is also one of the earliest literary works dating to 2150-2000 BCE, that includes various mythological figures . The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700-1100 BCE[1] making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use. The oldest portions of the Zoroastrian Avesta are believed to have been transmitted orally for centuries before they found written form, and although widely differing dates for Gathic Avestan (the language of the oldest texts) have been proposed, scholarly consensus floats at around 1000 BCE.[citation needed]

The first scripture printed for wide distribution to the masses was The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist scripture, and is the earliest recorded example of a dated printed text, bearing the Chinese calendar date for 11 May 868 CE.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text

[edais]

Yeah I was gonna say it was probably an ancient Egyptian text of some sort…

[Pauldo]

there's no arguing with those Jehova freaks.  just flip him the bird!

Paul, please record one of the encounters with Jehova freaks with a hidden camera. I would really like to see that  ;D

Oh it was great, their jaws just dropped when they tried to stop me on the street and hand me some of their literature.  I just held up my finger and kept walking past them.

Another time this guy I was passing on the street told me that jesus loved me.  I responded with a hearty “fuck you”.  He again told me jesus loved me, I again responded with an f u.  We continued on back and forth until we were out of range of each other.  I got in the last word though.

[psycherhexic]

this guy is my friend though.

the problem is: we both have this sort of sorrow for each other… like the other one is missing out.

we both won't budge.

and of course I think i'm right.  I'd really like to just quit debating with him because I felt tension for the first time last night, but somehow it always comes up.

and thanks for the wiki paste.. i read that but was skimming.. I guess I'll just print that off.

last night was really bothering me because he views ayahuasca ceremony as “the devils trick”..  :'( :-

I just keep thinking.. man would I like to see him take a huge dose lol  ::) ;D

I wouldn't give a shit if he wasn't a good person. He is a bit older than me but we really seem to be on the same “maturity” level, probably the only friend I have at work (HUGE ups hub) and he has kids and a wife.. so I think he believes in all of it to be safe and try and bring his kids up right…. I just disagree.

Every question I ask about why he chooses Jehova etc.. he answers with some scripture.. I'm like DUDE!!! ANYONE CAN WRITE SOMETHING DOWN!!!!!!! AND THEY DO AND THEY HAVE AND THEY WILL!!!!! WHY ARE YOU PICKING THIS ONE???

and he answers.. because the scriptures say:

and it makes my gut hurt.

[zensphere]

Well, the bible says the bible is true. If you believe the bible, then, there you go. Problem solved. ::)

There is no rational argument to be had with the firm believer. If you're already convinced that something is true, you're not going to be open to the possibility it's false.

All you can do is to sow the seeds of doubt…

[cosmicvibrations]

Well, the bible says the bible is true. If you believe the bible, then, there you go. Problem solved. ::)

Yeah, exactly.

[justin]

As far as I know the oldest religious (mythological) artifacts were cuneiform tablets recovered from modern day Mesopotamia. The Sumerians do have a creation story which predates the Torah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_religion

I suspect the Great Sphinx is the oldest artifact that we have access to/know about.

[Nameless One]

This is like searching for the first Goa trance song 🙂 you will always be able to make some tenuous argument that you have found something older… I mean, is this a religious/spiritual artifact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Hohle_Fels

If you are looking for the earliest religious/spiritual writing then I don't see why the Epic of Gilgamesh wouldn't qualify… it's a pretty cool story anyhow.

[zensphere]

I mean, is this a religious/spiritual artifact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Hohle_Fels

My kind of deity ;D

[Author]

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