[paradigm]

looks preety awsome, kinda like some psy-fi geek zapped Gemini with a matter transporter and blasted it to psyowa.

Should be a kick ass time, and really looking fwd to hearing Ear Worm. Ive not heard any of his tracks yet, but heard good things, and to be signed to yabai (preety darn good label) in such a short time speaks volumes..

and as for Dai, well when it comes to Technical DJ abilities im a bit of a snob and dont tend to see that many other Dj's as more gifted in mixer molesting than myself, but he is one of the few exceptions out there, that deserves a “were not worthy ” chant

[Robyo]

when it comes to Technical DJ abilities im a bit of a snob and dont tend to see that many other Dj's as more gifted in mixer molesting than myself

your humility is deafening  😉

[paradigm]

( sheepish shrug )  ::)  …. well ya know, gots to take pride in something ya do….  I dont hide the fact that im a picky critical albeit cocky bastard, and will be the 1st one in line to talk shit about someone i dont think is up to snuff, but i also have no problem heaping praise upon the deserving.

Im oldskool, and remember back in the early to mid 90's a dj was measured by his skills and showmanship, not just what he played. I watched that paradigm (he-he) slowly change in the general edm scene as the late 90's came on.
In the trance scene the roll of dj technical skills was always overlooked even more (see Raja Ram and Gil)  in favor of the music itself. Not something that is neccessarily a bad thing, but coming from the background i did, well it certainly was frustrating.
so as i see it im proud of my skillz that ive spent years perfecting, and my way of conducting myself tends to show that, but i try to be playful with it, and not be the arrogant asshole rockstar, that ive encounterd far to often in the music scene. Once you think your the top of the mountain, you stop trying, and shit goes down hill fast.

and please feel free to tell me if a set i played sometime was shit… If i can dish it out, its only fair that i take it too….

[Robyo]

( sheepish shrug )  ::)  …. well ya know, gots to take pride in something ya do….  I dont hide the fact that im a picky critical albeit cocky bastard, and will be the 1st one in line to talk shit about someone i dont think is up to snuff, but i also have no problem heaping praise upon the deserving.

Im oldskool, and remember back in the early to mid 90's a dj was measured by his skills and showmanship, not just what he played. I watched that paradigm (he-he) slowly change in the general edm scene as the late 90's came on.
In the trance scene the roll of dj technical skills was always overlooked even more (see Raja Ram and Gil)  in favor of the music itself. Not something that is neccessarily a bad thing, but coming from the background i did, well it certainly was frustrating.
so as i see it im proud of my skillz that ive spent years perfecting, and my way of conducting myself tends to show that, but i try to be playful with it, and not be the arrogant asshole rockstar, that ive encounterd far to often in the music scene. Once you think your the top of the mountain, you stop trying, and shit goes down hill fast.

and please feel free to tell me if a set i played sometime was shit… If i can dish it out, its only fair that i take it too….

I'd be a lot more impressed if you got up there and did some “oldskool” scratching and then beatmatched Mozart with some breakz records.  😀
IMHO, anyone can mix trance these days. Hell, with the software that's available now, you don't even need to cue in the headphones! And I believe it's ALWAYS been more about the music than technical skill. Otherwise, I would only appreciate jazz artists.
I do recognize your talent, Paradigm. You seem like a chill guy, so the “rockstar attitude” kind of suprised me.

[NightowL]

^dude rob, i have to disagree with you.  maybe with your labtop mixing program its easy, but with the rest of us that use decks and mixer tricks it can become quite the job.  especially when a high attitude/energy level is combined with the constant flow and colliding two tracks together on different occasions throughout the original track thats playing live, then switching into the next track without others knowing throughout an entirety of a set, things can get pretty crazy. 

if you think its too easy, maybe you should improve some aspects about your mixing, as maybe you arent doing enough…?

[damon]

mixing psytrance techniques

Yo boys and girls I have a question 🙂

Many years ago when I was mainly spinning hard trance/hard nrg/acid techno (and we all know mixing this shit is full of fuckin' with eqs, cuts, back spins etc.) I tried to mix psytrance using the same technique. At that time most psytrance djs were usually blending tracks seamlessly (and keeping that flow seemed to be most important thing) so I was told it's not appropriate to fuck with it 🙂 🙂 Pretty soon I felt it and started doing the same.

Now it looks like a lot more psytrance jocks are using that method (I think one of the reasons is psytrance tracks  nowaday have a lot of breaks, tempo changes, short samples which make them easier to fuck with 🙂 ) that was mostly used by techno/d'n'b/etc dudes.

So … what are your opinions?

PS. Fixer make a separate thread about it would you?

[Soze]

Depends on the style of psy.. Most psy has the liquid flowing sound that when abruptly changed by a cut trick is really noticeable. This can take people of the “trance”. Some styles, like the noise poison sound (really glitched out) it really works well with. I personally thought Dai was over doing the cutting tricks though. One thing with that trick is that if your timing is a bit off it doesn't sound very good. Other than that I still thought Dai did a great job. The first track he played was his too, and was very good.

I was impressed with some of the stuff Chris was doing at Gemini.. Doing little cuts of the cued track to make fills and doing it to a rhythm. Subtle stuff, but I liked what he was doing.

Sometimes if the dj is doing too many tricks people stop dancing to just watch what the dj is doing.. I'm not sure that should be the goal of a good psy dj..

[Pauldo]

I was impressed with some of the stuff Chris was doing at Gemini.. Doing little cuts of the cued track to make fills and doing it to a rhythm. Subtle stuff, but I liked what he was doing.

I think I picked up on him doing this @Crystal Sky with an Androcell track.  It was like “foreshadowing” the track to come.  It was pretty cool whoever was doing it.

[famiable]

Depends on the style of psy.. Most psy has the liquid flowing sound that when abruptly changed by a cut trick is really noticeable. This can take people of the “trance”. Some styles, like the noise poison sound (really glitched out) it really works well with. I personally thought Dai was over doing the cutting tricks though. One thing with that trick is that if your timing is a bit off it doesn't sound very good. Other than that I still thought Dai did a great job. The first track he played was his too, and was very good.

I was impressed with some of the stuff Chris was doing at Gemini.. Doing little cuts of the cued track to make fills and doing it to a rhythm. Subtle stuff, but I liked what he was doing.

Sometimes if the dj is doing too many tricks people stop dancing to just watch what the dj is doing.. I'm not sure that should be the goal of a good psy dj..

The whole purpose of  a psychedelic gathering to me is to get people into a state of trance and I have always felt that the “flow of music” is much more important than the tricks of the DJ.

I actually get annoyed when Djs try to impress people with their tricks as if the gathering is about them..to me it is about one's own journey into their minds and hearts and confronting their fears and embracing their strengthsand and sharing the energy with people around you and feeling their energy too. thats the reason why even tracks with clashing keys can mess up trippers and interrupt the flow of their thought process. good djs make the whole set feel like one long track with a theme or a story ..

psy tracks have a lot of effects built into them anyways..there is no need to add effects just to show that you are technically superior imho. to each their own though.

[NightowL]

^ it has nothing to do with superiority, it has to do with being able to make a constant flow with tricks that isnt even noticeable to the untrained ear (ie-knowing a track).  in my opinion, even without tricks I think flow, beatmatching, energy, ect is all very difficult to maintain if you want to pull off a great set.  tricks arent about how great you the dj are, its how great it sounds, and usually when its harder to pull off, the mass (especially those that are technical) tend to be more enjoyed by it.  its like saying skateboarders shouldnt do tricks.. if its good its good and if its bad its bad, nothing more to it 🙂 

and to rob, i was by no means implying you didnt have enough tricks/skills ect, i was just saying if youre bored with it try something new with it 🙂

[HARDKORNATE]

^dude rob, i have to disagree with you.  maybe with your labtop mixing program its easy, but with the rest of us that use decks and mixer tricks it can become quite the job.  especially when a high attitude/energy level is combined with the constant flow and colliding two tracks together on different occasions throughout the original track thats playing live, then switching into the next track without others knowing throughout an entirety of a set, things can get pretty crazy. 

if you think its too easy, maybe you should improve some aspects about your mixing, as maybe you arent doing enough…?

I think you are overestimating the difficulty level. 2 track IS easy. Four tracks = use traktor. Either way, the end product is all that matters.

[Robyo]

Chris, when is the last time you've seen me dj on a laptop?!! I'm not belittling laptop djs. The audio medium doesn't matter, what most matters is the energy coming out the speakers. My earlier point was that dj software makes it super easiy to mix nowadays so djs can actually play good music rather than focus on “a couple tracks that are mixable with each other.” I agree with Anand, a good dj set should flow like one long track or journey. To really do that, focus on track progression, key, and tempo flow. I have no problem whatsoever with tricks, cuts, EQing, or effects. But any changes the dj makes should be to enhance the listener's experience. Going beyond that quickly trails into egoist territory, IMHO. If you really want to show off, spin fire.

[paradigm]

wow i sparked quite the little debate, i think its about time for seperate thread on this one as well..

IMO flow is the 1st and most important concept of any set in trance. With out flow you have nothing, no journey, no mood nothing…
Really this is one of my biggest complaint about most night time / dark djs.
No begining, no end, just monster dark track after monster dark track

2nd is smooth mixes. Untill I'll say 2002 / 2003 psy trance was ruled by the old generation of dat dj's who after cd's came around decidied why learn to beat match, why bother. This goes for both the global scene, and US scene. Some djs in this group like Antaro would do clever things to try and cover up this inability (having a external sampler and using it over all the seperating breakdowns between tracks) whilst many others simply didnt care to learn or try. Nothing brings me out of trance faster than a set that stops every few minutes. Good example of this was Kali's dj set at Gemini It was unlistenble to me, even though his style of Barcelona trance is one of my favorites.
I still to this day dont understand the Goa Gil thing, and never will, but at least he makes an effort to mix, and has worked on this over the years.
However some of the super old school dj's learned over the years too, and i think are some of the best in the world.
Joti Sidhu is amazing, best ive even seen. Like was Dino Psaris (who is also a dinosaur) {really bad pun yes i know} is an amazing mixer.

3rd is track selction. Which ties back in with flow. A dj can play a track that on its own i might normally hate, but with in the context of a proper flowing set, it might work wonders. Going back to above though. I cant stand most of what Dino Psaris plays, but because he is such a skilled dj i will always go and see him, and enjoy it, because of how i feel about these things.

4th is Showmanship and tricks. By and large i see US DJ's practice this more (myself included ) than other global trance dj's. I think it does in fact stem back to early rave culture when cutting shit up was the norm. In fact more midwest dj's seem to play around with cuts and eq tricks than westcoast even., which again i think stems from a rave scene crossover. Many on the coasts, just fell into psy as their 1st edm experiance, so the take on it is different, where as in the midwest, everyone seems to be a former raver.
Both Aktif and Collision are fader happy, but know when to do it, and when not to. Nicks style in particular lends itself to that anyways. Ayrick, is really good and doing some crazy sweeping eq work while playing. and likewise myself
i just find it hard to mix into a track, and stand around doing nothing for 4 minutes while i let the track ride out untill my cue for the following track comes along. I think knowing when to do it, and when to not and using restraint are very important. Too many cuts screws up flow, which in my laid out hiarchy being number 1 is a no no. But also the dj that stands around doing nothing for 5 minutes is annoying. If your not going to do active things while playing, please at least try to look busy.

and yes i know you were quoting my own words Robyo, but i dont think its rockstar to have some pride in what you do. Rockstar would be saying im the best , deal with it. What im saying is i know i have a solid skill set, and i feel i do things that not alot of others do, but also at the same time, have no problem aknowledging that im also in some good company. Perhaps my phrasing of my statement was off, in my trying to be clever about mixer molesting.

[damon]

2nd is smooth mixes. Untill I'll say 2002 / 2003 psy trance was ruled by the old generation of dat dj's who after cd's came around decidied why learn to beat match, why bother. This goes for both the global scene, and US scene. Some djs in this group like Antaro would do clever things to try and cover up this inability (having a external sampler and using it over all the seperating breakdowns between tracks) whilst many others simply didnt care to learn or try. Nothing brings me out of trance faster than a set that stops every few minutes.

I guess I was lucky cause 99% of all psytrance djs I had seen in Europe back in 90s were spinning vinyl/cds and beatmatching. Only heard about DAT mafia  ;D

[NightowL]

Chris, when is the last time you've seen me dj on a laptop?!! I'm not belittling laptop djs. The audio medium doesn't matter, what most matters is the energy coming out the speakers. My earlier point was that dj software makes it super easiy to mix nowadays so djs can actually play good music rather than focus on “a couple tracks that are mixable with each other.” I agree with Anand, a good dj set should flow like one long track or journey. To really do that, focus on track progression, key, and tempo flow. I have no problem whatsoever with tricks, cuts, EQing, or effects. But any changes the dj makes should be to enhance the listener's experience. Going beyond that quickly trails into egoist territory, IMHO. If you really want to show off, spin fire.

i was referring to the laptop programs you speak of that make it incredibly easy by adding help.. im not referring to all labtop djs, just ones that would use such a program without even adding mixer tricks.  i do have to admit however when it comes to decks vs labtops, i personally think decks are more enjoyable for both the dj and the audience especially in terms of being able to see what the dj is doing/feel for what youre doing.  and also you know that its the dj beatmatching and not some bpm balancer in the labtop program.  but then again, sometimes labtops have certain perks that decks dont so there could be a debate on this as well… which maybe should be saved for a separate forum. 

im pretty much saying that true mixing (not with one of these programs) is difficult and one's personality should be admitted into their style of mixing (including tricks, effects, basslead bring ins, ect).. thats why djs are so entertaining 🙂  and yes, i agree that any changes the dj makes should be to enhance the listeners experience, not to further your ego.

but anyway, we've covered burning man and mixing politics.. how about that party comin up in august?  😉

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