[Machi]

Being open-minded, as I said, is about considering everything, but that doesn't mean you have to think everything is possible. That'd be ridiculous. If someone comes up to me and tells me they can fly, I'm not going to be like “oh well, that's possible”. No, I'm going to say, well yeah, show me. If they can't, I'm not going to assume it's possible (unless they give another plausible explanation). This doesn't mean that I'm closed-minded.

Believe whatever you want to is possible, but if you think that ignoring evidence to keep deeming something as possible is a good idea, then there's never a reason to take that person seriously.

Kevin, would you believe someone if they told you they had out-of-the-body experience while they were sleeping last nite?

[Ascension]

The type of mindset you have described would cause you to believe that everything that is unfalsifiable is intrinsically possible (absolutely not the case). I only see this leading to lots and lots of wasted time (especially in the world of science). The negative aspect of this all is that you start considering ANYTHING to be possible and your standards of proof slide. This makes you appear very uncritical and will eventually will undermine plausible scenarios you may be involved with in the future. To put more simply, if you exemplify this type of mentality people will stop believing things you say even if you have good evidence because they know your standards are far more laxed than theirs.

It's almost like crying wolf. The more times you say outrageous claims that lack proof are possible simply because you think this keeps you open-minded, the less likely people would be to consider all of your points and evidence on an even keel. People in the scientific world will not be as kind as people have been on here. In academia you can slip this under the radar a LOTTTTTTTTT easier than you can in the working world.

[PookztA]

The type of mindset you have described would cause you to believe that everything that is unfalsifiable is intrinsically possible (absolutely not the case). I only see this leading to lots and lots of wasted time (especially in the world of science). The negative aspect of this all is that you start considering ANYTHING to be possible and your standards of proof slide. This makes you appear very uncritical and will eventually will undermine plausible scenarios you may be involved with in the future. To put more simply, if you exemplify this type of mentality people will stop believing things you say even if you have good evidence because they know your standards are far more laxed than theirs.

It's almost like crying wolf. The more times you say outrageous claims that lack proof are possible simply because you think this keeps you open-minded, the less likely people would be to consider all of your points and evidence on an even keel. People in the scientific world will not be as kind as people have been on here. In academia you can slip this under the radar a LOTTTTTTTTT easier than you can in the working world.

you just compared my believing that many things are possible to me crying wolf…

you also compared my belief that many things are possible to someone making outrageous claims…

saying something is possible, based on logic and reason, is not an outrageous claim, nor is it crying wolf.

I am not making outrageous claims, and I am not crying wolf, I am just being honest to myself, in a very logical way.

I admit that some things are not possible, like a human surviving without some type of oxygen supply…

…so please do not worry so much about me Kevin. I am a very logical and rational person, and I have no problem explaining my self to other scientists.

I do see where you are coming from though, in regards to the judgments of other scientists.

Good looking out.

-Abe

[Ascension]

Being open-minded, as I said, is about considering everything, but that doesn't mean you have to think everything is possible. That'd be ridiculous. If someone comes up to me and tells me they can fly, I'm not going to be like “oh well, that's possible”. No, I'm going to say, well yeah, show me. If they can't, I'm not going to assume it's possible (unless they give another plausible explanation). This doesn't mean that I'm closed-minded.

Believe whatever you want to is possible, but if you think that ignoring evidence to keep deeming something as possible is a good idea, then there's never a reason to take that person seriously.

Kevin, would you believe someone if they told you they had out-of-the-body experience while they were sleeping last nite?

Are you suggesting that I should think things are possible simply because they can't be disproven (logically this doesn't make sense)? I simply choose to wait for answers and evidence rather than accepting claims out right (mind you, this is how technology is developed). Is there any harm in me not believing that the person had an out of body experience? Is there any advantage to me believing them? OBE's are something that science cannot currently explain, BUT there are ways to prove that the person had an OBE. There's no compelling, logical reason to have your first response to anything anyone says being the consideration that it is possible.

If someone told you that if you jumped out of a plane they could catch you since they can fly, would you think it's possible? Would you be willing to be the first person to jump? What does just thinking it's possible accomplish?

[PookztA]

What does just thinking it's possible accomplish?

i know you were talking to Machi but I wanted to chime in quick about this sentence.

thinking things are possible leads to innovations. if people did not think that it was possible to travel into outer space and land on the moon, they probably would not have tried.

simiarly, if people didn't think it was possible to somehow fit an entire library of books onto a tiny double-layered piece of plastic (DVD), they probably would never have tried to create one.

dream big and reach for the stars! 🙂

-Abe

[Ascension]

The type of mindset you have described would cause you to believe that everything that is unfalsifiable is intrinsically possible (absolutely not the case). I only see this leading to lots and lots of wasted time (especially in the world of science). The negative aspect of this all is that you start considering ANYTHING to be possible and your standards of proof slide. This makes you appear very uncritical and will eventually will undermine plausible scenarios you may be involved with in the future. To put more simply, if you exemplify this type of mentality people will stop believing things you say even if you have good evidence because they know your standards are far more laxed than theirs.

It's almost like crying wolf. The more times you say outrageous claims that lack proof are possible simply because you think this keeps you open-minded, the less likely people would be to consider all of your points and evidence on an even keel. People in the scientific world will not be as kind as people have been on here. In academia you can slip this under the radar a LOTTTTTTTTT easier than you can in the working world.

you just compared my believing that many things are possible to me crying wolf…

you also compared my belief that many things are possible to someone making outrageous claims…

saying something is possible, based on logic and reason, is not an outrageous claim, nor is it crying wolf.

I am not making outrageous claims, and I am not crying wolf, I am just being honest to myself, in a very logical way.

I admit that some things are not possible, like a human surviving without some type of oxygen supply…

…so please do not worry so much about me Kevin. I am a very logical and rational person, and I have no problem explaining my self to other scientists.

I do see where you are coming from though, in regards to the judgments of other scientists.

Good looking out.

-Abe

The crying wolf comparison is an example of how your credibility slips. That's not even a good comparison for what happens in the real world, it'd be more like 1 overtly false claim and you fall off a cliff. Credibility is one thing that everyone is trying to get, everyone is trying to keep and a lot of people try to take away from others. Being a creditable scientists is basically the same as having people trust you. If I haven't trusted your scientific judgment on events in the past, it's less likely that I would look for your opinion on future matters.

Basically there's an enormous snowballing effect that I want you to realize can start with things you consider to be innocent.

[zensphere]

Being open-minded, as I said, is about considering everything, but that doesn't mean you have to think everything is possible. That'd be ridiculous. If someone comes up to me and tells me they can fly, I'm not going to be like “oh well, that's possible”. No, I'm going to say, well yeah, show me. If they can't, I'm not going to assume it's possible (unless they give another plausible explanation). This doesn't mean that I'm closed-minded.

Believe whatever you want to is possible, but if you think that ignoring evidence to keep deeming something as possible is a good idea, then there's never a reason to take that person seriously.

Kevin, would you believe someone if they told you they had out-of-the-body experience while they were sleeping last nite?

Are you suggesting that I should think things are possible simply because they can't be disproven (logically this doesn't make sense)? I simply choose to wait for answers and evidence rather than accepting claims out right (mind you, this is how technology is developed). Is there any harm in me not believing that the person had an out of body experience? Is there any advantage to me believing them? OBE's are something that science cannot currently explain, BUT there are ways to prove that the person had an OBE. There's no compelling, logical reason to have your first response to anything anyone says being the consideration that it is possible.

If someone told you that if you jumped out of a plane they could catch you since they can fly, would you think it's possible? Would you be willing to be the first person to jump? What does just thinking it's possible accomplish?

If I'm not mistaken, OOBEs can be induced by electrically stimulating the right angular gyrus of the brain

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/obe.html

@Machi: I would believe them, unless they were a new-age attention whore. OOBEs are awesome.

[PookztA]

Like I said KO, I agree with you there, and I appreciate you looking out for me. I definitely am aware that people are going to judge me more and more heavily as time goes on.

Lucky for me, I am an evidence-based thinker, and I would never perscribe anything to a patient that was not heavily backed by evidence.

Thankfully though, there are quite a few things that are evidence-based that were not evidence-based in the past, such as Accupuncture. I plan on being a very open-minded doctor in that sense, that I will have no problem discussing treatments that are not yet mainstream in the medical community, so long as they are evidence-based. Another one is Music. If I do achieve my goal of becoming a surgeon, I plan on perscribing my patients to listen to their favorite kind of music for at least 1 hour a day while they recover from surgery. Studies show that music reduces a patients need for painkillers, helps lower pulse rate and blood pressures, and other things.

just saying, I won't be confusing philosophies / theories with evidence-based conclusions in a professional setting.

thanks for looking out for me bro.

-Abe

P.S. – for more info on evidence-based types of complementary and alternative medicine, check out the National Institute of Health's government NCCAM website: http://nccam.nih.gov/

[Machi]

If I'm not mistaken, OOBEs can be induced by electrically stimulating the right angular gyrus of the brain

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/obe.html

@Machi: I would believe them, unless they were a new-age attention whore. OOBEs are awesome.

yeah, exactly…than tacos to you bro for the nice short, straight to the point answer, not the whole paragraph about nothing….

[edais]

Abe, why aren't you in a D.O. program?

[PookztA]

Abe, why aren't you in a D.O. program?

to be honest, I am not 100% sure, but I applied to med school to become a neurosurgeon, and I think I assumed that I could not achieve that through D.O. school. i will be honest though, I never looked into it. my plan was to apply to a D.O. school if I didn't get into med school on my 2nd try.

[cosmicvibrations]

The crying wolf comparison is an example of how your credibility slips. That's not even a good comparison for what happens in the real world, it'd be more like 1 overtly false claim and you fall off a cliff. Credibility is one thing that everyone is trying to get, everyone is trying to keep and a lot of people try to take away from others. Being a creditable scientists is basically the same as having people trust you. If I haven't trusted your scientific judgment on events in the past, it's less likely that I would look for your opinion on future matters.

Basically there's an enormous snowballing effect that I want you to realize can start with things you consider to be innocent.

Kevin made a *really* good point, Abe. You have to be careful what you publicly announce to be truth.

I think it explains some of the reactions people have to you on this forum now (which I often find to be at least somewhat knee-jerk). It may not be entirely fair, but that's how the information age works. As someone's mentioned before, we have to parse through LOTS of information… credibility is valuable, and losing it is easy.

My .02 is that you really should be more picky about what you post and say to people. Some of this stuff deserves to hang out in your own head until you're sure about it… no need to share everything externally right away.

…In fact, I want to say this. I could be wrong on this (and I could be projecting), but it occurs to me that you seem to have always posted things “to get others' opinions” about them. Even when you know the reaction you get will be flaming and negativity, you still seem to do that. I wonder this, Abe… perhaps you should trust your own intuition more, and keep more things inside you, processing them there? Why does it neccessarily matter what other people think about every idea you come into contact with? IMO, what matters is that you process things internally, honing your own judgement and intuition. Inside is also where you decide what you're going to do with the information. THEN you can share.

And that way, perhaps it won't even matter to you when other people flame you? I totally grasp the importance of sharing ideas. But not EVERYTHING needs to come out externally right away (or even at all)… you've got the tools you need to decipher the truth inside you. Just a thought.

[edais]

Yeah, as much as he seems to be confident in his own beliefs and outlooks on things, it seems Abe seeks approval pretty damn often.  I bet he's going to disagree with me here and talk about how he only wants to “share information” and he immensely values the viewpoints of everyone around here and that's all.  I still think that he has a lot of internal struggles going on with the theories/evidence/information/ideas he puts forth.  So many damn questions, all the time.  What does this mean?  Why do you think this happens?  Don't you see?  This could be possible.  What if?  Why?  and on and on and on.  Look inside yourself, do some independent research and be satisfied with that.  We're all doing the same thing to different extents in our own lives.  Instead, you try to drag us off our own paths and fill our heads with all the stuff you're dealing with.  I for one am tired of being part of the dumping ground for all this internal struggle.

I could see you wanting to relate your path to the ones that each of us are taking, but you should be able to see now that they don't line up.  What will get you to see that?  It doesn't mean we can't enjoy psytrance together and party together and even have discussions on here.  It always goes too far though.  I wish you would just be aware of when that is happening.  Instead of responding with 3 paragraphs to Nick in defense of something, or explaining to Basilisk why you're a completely rational thinker, or me why you don't need therapy or why I should care about a 9/11 investigation even though I DON'T, just let it go.

Just let it go.

[edais]

I'm not saying you have to let it go all the time either.  Sometimes it's very important to stand up for yourself, even on internet forums.  But not ALL THE TIME.  Not everyone needs to completely understand where you're coming from, and not everyone will.  You just have to accept that.  Even if you think you do, I challenge you to go back and accept it again.  Not everyone will agree with you–you obviously know that.  But more importantly, not everyone will understand, tolerate, accept, respect, or even CARE about your viewpoint.  It can be sad sometimes, but fuck it.  Why try and teach someone who doesn't want to learn?

[edais]

For the record, this is the last post I will be making about Abe, unless it's about something else entirely that's important or I'm responding to something he posts after this in this thread.  He's been the center of attention for too long.  It's fucking stupid.  Sorry if I contributed to that.

[Author]

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