[Pauldo]

1.  I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true.

2. You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.

3.  What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job.

4. Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it.

5. I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

6. Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.

7. In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?

8. Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.

9. If some good evidence for life after death were announced, I'd be eager to examine it; but it would have to be real scientific data, not mere anecdote. As with the face on Mars and alien abductions, better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.

10. If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?….For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

11. Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science?

12. We should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit.

[PookztA]

sweet quotes, seems like an intelligent guy.

it's a great thing to share your beliefs with others like Carl did with these quotes…

…but it's not a great thing to try and convert others' beliefs to your own…

i highly doubt that Carl Sagan would pick out his 'friends' spiritual beliefs for the sole purpose of trying to convert them to his own.

better to share your beliefs with others and let them decide for themselves in my opinion.

I quickly wanted to share my beliefs regarding reincarnation for discussion. Two of the main reasons I believe in reincarnation are derived from thinking about the way the Universe works:

1. there are so many continual cycles in this Universe, which leads me to believe that life and death are also part of a cycle of rebirth and redeath.

2. studies seem to suggest that we have some type of free will (free won't, according to Ben Libet), and for that reason, I believe that there are consequences for our actions, some of which I think carry over into your 'next life', depending on how much consequence we face in this life. For example, if a murderous person uses his free will to prematurely end the lives of others against their free will and gets away with it, I believe that the murderous person will reincarnate as some lesser form as a result, perhaps a rock or something, because to remove someone's life prematurely against their will is a big deal, and some people get away with it completely, with little or no consequences in this life. In a system like this that has such amazing energy transfer and flow, I find it hard to believe that someone can get away with committing murder in this Universe, and not suffer some form of consequences for ending others' lives against their will.

Now if that same murderer realizes what he did was wrong and uses that feeling of guilt and wrongness to do great things for the world to make up for it, perhaps he will not reincarnate as a lesser form. Likewise, if that murderer suffers an equivalent amount of punishment here (extreme guilt and sorrow, life in jail, death penalty, etc.), perhaps he will not reincarnate as any lessor form as well, since he suffered the consequences here in this life. I believe that one of our reasons for existence is to realize that the purpose of life is to try and maximize the happiness and health of as many other living beings as possible, and if you do a good enough job here, you can escape the cycle of rebirth and redeath, and never reincarnate again. This portion of my beliefs are obviously derived from Buddhism, and the cycle of rebirth and redeath that we are 'trying to escape' is called Samsara, and when we become aware of this cycle, accept it, and do enough genuinely good deeds to help others in this world, we can escape that cycle, achieving what they refer to as Nirvana. (it is important that one does the good deeds simply to do good things for others, and not for the purpose of achieving reward, as this makes the act less genuine.)

Does anyone care to share their beliefs in a different explanation for how someone getting away with murder in their current life would be justified in this world? Would like to hear others' thoughts on this….

[_eNdo_]

Carl Sagan is the MAN!  

edited.  I was going to bring something up but decided not to as it is an endless debate.  I was just going to point out how, again, there is a blurred line between classical faith based religion and this newer science based type of spirituality.  Its unfortunate that any type of philosophy or spirituality is quickly overshadowed by the stereotypes of classical religion.  

Back in the day, Shamans and such were considered to have magical powers when in reality they were simply modern day pharmacists.  Their patients “believed” that they had magical powers and were eliminating demons from their bodies when they were simply just prescribing them medicine.  There were unable to explain it, yet it worked. So they continued to use it.  Now, science is able to explain how certain medicines work and operate on the human body.  The same goes for exactly this topic.   Many, many people are getting into this stuff yet are unable to explain it.  Some, especially well educated and well know quantum physicists are able to make their own conclusions based on science that seem to be very accurate theories.  However, until we know for  sure, there will be those who are skeptical and will never really know until science proves it.  Or there will be those who don't understand why it works but do know that it does in fact work and whom will continue to reap the benefits.

[Machi]

I don't really care if Sagan, Einstein or Elvis Presley were spiritual or not. It doesn't effect me a bit cuz I can feel non-physical form of energy (so-called spirit) residing within my body all the time, being primary source of my actions. This is what makes me spiritual, not the fact someone else was or wasn't.  😛

[PookztA]

 However, until we know for  sure, there will be those who are skeptical and will never really know until science proves it.  Or there will be those who don't understand why it works but do know that it does in fact work and whom will continue to reap the benefits.

this is a great point Eric, i never thought about it like that… cool example too 🙂

[Pauldo]

There's a whole lotta “sham” in every shaman.  ;D

[Machi]

There's a whole lotta “sham” in every shaman.   ;D

poor guy is dead (physially) so leave him alone or his spirit will hunt you forever  ;D

[Pauldo]

Vince is still alive?  Didn't he recently get arrested for beating up a prostitute?  It's Billy Mays, the OxiClean guy who died…OD on coke.

[_eNdo_]

Vince is still alive?  Didn't he recently get arrested for beating up a prostitute?  It's Billy Mays, the OxiClean guy who died…OD on coke.

yup

[PookztA]

i like this photo 🙂

[Pauldo]

[Machi]

Vince is still alive?  Didn't he recently get arrested for beating up a prostitute?  It's Billy Mays, the OxiClean guy who died…OD on coke.

my bad

[Pauldo]

Vince is still alive?  Didn't he recently get arrested for beating up a prostitute?  It's Billy Mays, the OxiClean guy who died…OD on coke.

my bad

Ya see!  Prime example how false beliefs lead to false thinking in other parts of your life.  Next thing ya know we'll be building altars to Billy Mays, sniffing lines of OxiClean and sacrificing prostitutes.  It all starts so innocently enough…  ;D

[Machi]

Vince is still alive?  Didn't he recently get arrested for beating up a prostitute?  It's Billy Mays, the OxiClean guy who died…OD on coke.

my bad

Ya see!  Prime example how false beliefs lead to false thinking in other parts of your life.  Next thing ya know we'll be building altars to Billy Mays, sniffing lines of OxiClean and sacrificing prostitutes.  It all starts so innocently enough…   ;D

that's why I never trust tv commercials …what? ???

[PookztA]

this was at an ATLPsy event called Sacred Seed. i think it is awesome that they had things like this around the mainstage for people to read. it added a deeper meaning to the event, because it vividly showed the groups' intentions of trying to help people to reach new levels of happiness in their lives, in addition to having a great time at the event.

[Author]

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