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EklypzMemberAs for cigarettes:
The mind is willing but the body is weak…
You figure it out 🙁
RobyoParticipantwith cigs, even just cutting down helps ;D
Trippy PippiGuestI've been looking around for an organic herb shop somewhere. I wanna try rolling mint & comfrey leaves in some cigarette tubes; it's supposed to taste good and have a calming effect as well as help w/ the smoking fetish thing.
Hopefully I'll find a place in the Monthly Aspectarian or sumpthin.
PauldoMemberspiritual and magical are not the same thing.
I've actually been having a tough time getting my thoughts around “spirtual”. One of my oldest friends who is an atheist recently started going to a unitarian church to become more “spirtual”. He's still firmly an atheist(doesn't believe in a creator, there is no god, nothing after death). I'm just not getting it. Why would an atheist have any use in a spirtual practice? I asked him to define spirtual but it's still a pretty intangible thing. I greatly respect my friend so I've been trying to keep an open mind that there's something to “spirtual” that I'm just not getting.
What else is there to spirtual outside of belief in a deity, creator, afterlife, a power outside of ourselves? Belief in any of those things to me equates to magical thinking. To me all things spirtual are magical. Obviously not all things magical are spirtual. Another possible aspect to spiritual could be the “life force” of the universe. The life force though I wouldn't say is spirtual. It's something real and tangible which is demonstrated by our own very existence. We are alive. Belief in the life force of the universe doesn't require belief in a creator or god or anything like that. So if a spirtual practice is an effort to become more aware of and more tuned into the natrual life force of the universe then I could dig that. Still kind of hard to define spirtual in that context but it'll work for me for now.
I once read an author who suggested that the Buddha never had spoken in regards to god or gods or even an afterlife of any kind (that was all put in by men at a later time). His teachings were a philosophy for the here and now…that nirvana was attainable in this life time. So if a spirtual practice was in the context of the here and now then that's cool. But there's nothing magical about it…there are real concrete things one can do to become more spiritual/in tune with the natrual life force.
blah blah blah blah-blah! thanks for letting me work that out ;D
RobyoParticipantspiritual and magical are not the same thing.
I've actually been having a tough time getting my thoughts around “spirtual”. One of my oldest friends who is an atheist recently started going to a unitarian church to become more “spirtual”. He's still firmly an atheist(doesn't believe in a creator, there is no god, nothing after death). I'm just not getting it. Why would an atheist have any use in a spirtual practice? I asked him to define spirtual but it's still a pretty intangible thing. I greatly respect my friend so I've been trying to keep an open mind that there's something to “spirtual” that I'm just not getting.
What else is there to spirtual outside of belief in a deity, creator, afterlife, a power outside of ourselves? Belief in any of those things to me equates to magical thinking. To me all things spirtual are magical. Obviously not all things magical are spirtual. Another possible aspect to spiritual could be the “life force” of the universe. The life force though I wouldn't say is spirtual. It's something real and tangible which is demonstrated by our own very existence. We are alive. Belief in the life force of the universe doesn't require belief in a creator or god or anything like that. So if a spirtual practice is an effort to become more aware of and more tuned into the natrual life force of the universe then I could dig that. Still kind of hard to define spirtual in that context but it'll work for me for now.
I once read an author who suggested that the Buddha never had spoken in regards to god or gods or even an afterlife of any kind (that was all put in by men at a later time). His teachings were a philosophy for the here and now…that nirvana was attainable in this life time. So if a spirtual practice was in the context of the here and now then that's cool. But there's nothing magical about it…there are real concrete things one can do to become more spiritual/in tune with the natrual life force.
blah blah blah blah-blah! thanks for letting me work that out ;D
Maybe in nature, spirit is innate and magic is manipulation… ;D
I definitely subscribe to the “spiritual journey” path rather than the “organized religion” one. The former is free-thinking, engaging, and promotes equality; the other is dogmatic and hierarchical.
We have much to learn from all the religions as well as science and other systems way older than either. People make the mistake when they think they have all or the only answers…
by the way, the Univeralist Unitarian church in my town has an athiest for it's minister! I don't get it, but that's me ::)
PauldoMemberspiritual and magical are not the same thing.
I've actually been having a tough time getting my thoughts around “spirtual”. One of my oldest friends who is an atheist recently started going to a unitarian church to become more “spirtual”. He's still firmly an atheist(doesn't believe in a creator, there is no god, nothing after death). I'm just not getting it. Why would an atheist have any use in a spirtual practice? I asked him to define spirtual but it's still a pretty intangible thing. I greatly respect my friend so I've been trying to keep an open mind that there's something to “spirtual” that I'm just not getting.
What else is there to spirtual outside of belief in a deity, creator, afterlife, a power outside of ourselves? Belief in any of those things to me equates to magical thinking. To me all things spirtual are magical. Obviously not all things magical are spirtual. Another possible aspect to spiritual could be the “life force” of the universe. The life force though I wouldn't say is spirtual. It's something real and tangible which is demonstrated by our own very existence. We are alive. Belief in the life force of the universe doesn't require belief in a creator or god or anything like that. So if a spirtual practice is an effort to become more aware of and more tuned into the natrual life force of the universe then I could dig that. Still kind of hard to define spirtual in that context but it'll work for me for now.
I once read an author who suggested that the Buddha never had spoken in regards to god or gods or even an afterlife of any kind (that was all put in by men at a later time). His teachings were a philosophy for the here and now…that nirvana was attainable in this life time. So if a spirtual practice was in the context of the here and now then that's cool. But there's nothing magical about it…there are real concrete things one can do to become more spiritual/in tune with the natrual life force.
blah blah blah blah-blah! thanks for letting me work that out ;D
Maybe in nature, spirit is innate and magic is manipulation… ;D
by the way, the Univeralist Unitarian church in my town has an athiest for it's minister! I don't get it, but that's me ::)
Yeah I can dig that distinction between spirit and magic
any chance you can look up that minister in ur yellow pages and find some contact info? I'd like to ask him WTF dude! Seriously though it would be interesting to hear how he works it out philosophically.
thefixerMemberAll these terms: spirit, magick, magic, god, religion, are all problematic because people define them differently in such a way that we can never agree.
I use the terms all in limited ways, but really all I am talking about is:
“What am I?”
“What is my relationship to the universe?”
“Why am I here?”
Call the quest for answers to these questions anything you want.
debbieGuestI agree with the Fixer. After reading your post Pauldo, I got the strong impression that you were caught up in simple semantics which is a common problem. Religion vs Spiritual, Magical vs Mystical so on and so on. I am finding that the more I discover about myself and my relationship with others and with the universe, the more I realize words cannot properly express my understanding. Everything becomes blurred. Boundries dissolve and nothing can be clearly labeled. It just is. It is the experience that matters not what you call it. That experience is logically going to be unique for each individual.
And now to answer your question regarding a UU minister being atheist: There are several identifiable tracks within the UU church such as the expected Judeo-Christian, Pagan, Buddhist and what is preferably called Humanist. The common ground for all of these foundational beliefs is the idea of universalism. The idea we are all connected. Even a Humanist can agree with that concept finding the numinous in our everyday relationship with our natural world. This my friend is how I view spirituality. Its all about relationships with ourselves, with other beings and with our environments. It does not have to do anything with deity. As far as I am concerned WE ARE ALL GODS.
PauldoMember“What am I?”
“What is my relationship to the universe?”
“Why am I here?”
Call the quest for answers to these questions anything you want.
Well you just might not like what I would call the quest for the answers to those questions! 😛 kiddin' ya!
But Yes I would agree on those questions. Those are as old as time that people have been asking themselves and looking to find the answers. Those questions would be the base definition for many things…spirit, magic, etc.
I sometimes catch myself being egocentric and having to remind myself that there might just not be any great noble reason to why and what I am. I really am just a tiny small nat in the entire grand universe. There are far more things in this universe which are larger than I vs. what I am larger than. My relationship to the universe could be that of me the parasite just feeding off the big teets of the universe. I do balance that though with reminding myself that yes I do make a difference in this universe no matter how small of a role it is. I can and do make a difference in the lives of others. I will rule the universe one day!!! ;D
PauldoMemberI agree with the Fixer. After reading your post Pauldo, I got the strong impression that you were caught up in simple semantics which is a common problem. Religion vs Spiritual, Magical vs Mystical so on and so on. I am finding that the more I discover about myself and my relationship with others and with the universe, the more I realize words cannot properly express my understanding. Everything becomes blurred. Boundries dissolve and nothing can be clearly labeled. It just is. It is the experience that matters not what you call it. That experience is logically going to be unique for each individual.
And now to answer your question regarding a UU minister being atheist: There are several identifiable tracks within the UU church such as the expected Judeo-Christian, Pagan, Buddhist and what is preferably called Humanist. The common ground for all of these foundational beliefs is the idea of universalism. The idea we are all connected. Even a Humanist can agree with that concept finding the numinous in our everyday relationship with our natural world. This my friend is how I view spirituality. Its all about relationships with ourselves, with other beings and with our environments. It does not have to do anything with deity. As far as I am concerned WE ARE ALL GODS.
Yes I often think I am god! I'm just being a little whipersnapper tonight! Not trying to be a smartass…well yeah I am trying to be just a little bit. hehe
I'm also having a tough time with that “we are all connected” idea. Are we all really connected me thinks??? Sure we do all live in a common system(s) and our actions do effect each other so in that sense we are all connected. Not any more in a physical sense. (we may be connected via a common “energy”, it's just that we don't know the properties of that energy yet) But in thinking about social and political systems I believe the individual should be accounted for first and foremost. If it doesn't work for the individual then it doesn't work for all. Or at least that an idea we should hold up decisions too.
Since we are in the babel thread…just had seen a commercial for a Homer Simpson Edition of the game Operation! got get me that one
EklypzMemberI hate tribe being down.
*twitch*
Trippy PippiGuestThe movements of the galaxies imitate the interstuctures of the atom. No matter how closely you look or broadly you view the universe, it always looks pretty much the same: a bunch of little dots swirling around in a bunch of space. Maybe you're the nose AND the booger? (…AND the sneeze….) (((You are me & I am you; we are One pretending two/to.)))
Anyway! I bought this thingy at the occult store yesturday: “Smoke Less Scent Inhaler”….it's got eucalyptus, lemon, & pine to relax the lungs & fill your mind w/ determination to quit smoking…..so far it's been helping me cut down tremendously! I ask myself “Do I want to smell something refreshing or smoke poisonous black tarry lung-filling icky yucky stuff BLAh!?! Hmmm…..”
Only $4.95 @ Styx n' Stonz 😉debbieGuestI was doing research yesterday for ideas to write a Yule/winter solstice ritual. I came across a quote that struck me pertinent to our postings on connectedness. It is from a book called 4000 Years of Christmas (and yes I realize that xmas is only 2000 years old but many of the traditions are much older) by Earl W. Count.
“Shall we liken Christmas to the web in a loom? There are many weavers, who work into the pattern the experience of their lives. When one generation goes, another comes to take up the weft where it has been dropped. The pattern changes as the mind changes, yet never begins quite anew. At first, we are not sure that we discern the pattern, but at last we see that, unknown to the weavers themselves, something has taken shape before our eyes, and that they have made something very beautiful, something which compels our understanding.”
RobyoParticipantby Earl W. Count:
“Shall we liken Christmas to the web in a loom? There are many weavers, who work into the pattern the experience of their lives. When one generation goes, another comes to take up the weft where it has been dropped. The pattern changes as the mind changes, yet never begins quite anew. At first, we are not sure that we discern the pattern, but at last we see that, unknown to the weavers themselves, something has taken shape before our eyes, and that they have made something very beautiful, something which compels our understanding.”
that's a great analogy, Deb. I think it can apply to much more that Chistmas, like the whole of human creative endeavor.
Nothing is new under the sun. Even the newest psytrance track is just recycled ideas and influences from artists going back into primal history. The internet is an amazing tool because it allows us to make these loom pattern connections so much quicker and easier. What before took a lifetime of research to uncover can be found in hours now. But most people think it's only good for gossip and porn and buying shit…debbieGuestthat's a great analogy, Deb. I think it can apply to much more that Chistmas, like the whole of human creative endeavor.
Nothing is new under the sun. Even the newest psytrance track is just recycled ideas and influences from artists going back into primal history. The internet is an amazing tool because it allows us to make these loom pattern connections so much quicker and easier. What before took a lifetime of research to uncover can be found in hours now. But most people think it's only good for gossip and porn and buying shit…Absolutely! That's why I wanted to share this quote. I am a firm believer that nothing is created in a vacuum. Everything builds upon what has seemingly come before. What I do find amazing however, is when ideas seem to pop up simultaneously in unrelated locations.
The internet has most definitely made the world an even smaller place. I wonder sometimes what my kids generation will be like now that they have grown up with the internet. My daughter is almost always plugged in. As a parent, it has definitely posed unusual boundry/limit setting issues. My parents had is easy with only telling me to get off the phone.
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